User talk:MrPK
Welcome to ! Welcome to our wiki, and thank you for your contribution to the Tomohawk page! There's a lot to do around here, so I hope you'll stay with us and make many more improvements. :' ' is a great first stop, because you can see what other people are editing right this minute, and where you can help. :Questions? You can ask at the Help desk or on the associated with each article, or post a message on my talk page! :Need help? The Community Portal has an outline of the site, and pages to help you learn how to edit. :Please familiarise yourself with Robot Wars Wiki Policies - These are found in the sidebar, or under Category:Policy. These are the law around here, so you would do well not to break them. :Bored? The Job List has the list of ongoing projects to help with, as well as pages badly in need of edits. I'm really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you! :-- Christophee (Talk) 13:11, November 14, 2012 So the correct spelling is Tomahawk? In that case, we'll alter the page accordingly. The show obviously made an error, a member of Team Lazerus would obviously be correct. If there's anything else you want to tell us, such as what happened in the qualifiers for Robot Wars, or interesting things that were never televised, please do so. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 23:14, November 14, 2012 (UTC) :Welcome to the wiki. Thanks very much for the information you've given us. As ToastUltimatum says, we'd love to hear any other interesting info you have about the robot or the team. I hope you enjoy your time here. Christophee (talk) 00:22, November 15, 2012 (UTC) TMHWK and Terrorhurtz's axe In regards to your edits to Tomahawk's axe not originally being Terrorhurtz, do you have a source to say that's the case? Especially considering everything on the TV show stating that it was? Not that we don't trust you, it's just all the evidence we have suggests that TMHWK did have Terrorhurtz's old axe. CrashBash (talk) 14:06, June 15, 2018 (UTC) Where on the TV show is it said that the axe was from Terrorhurtz - please give me further details. If it has been said on the TV show did anyone verify the fact with John or PK to confirm? Im sure the record would have been put straight. The cost of materials and machine time alone suggests that the notion of John giving PK a spare axe is ridiculous. Not only that but the two machines operated differently. Tomahawk had a 150 stroke ram operated via a reverse idle gear to the axe pinion gear while THZ operated a 250 stroke ram operating directly to the axe pinion gear - the two systems would have been totally incompatible. Im afraid whoever wrote that axes were gifted to other teams should have done some research and not just gone on roumour. Hope that clears thing up. 08:15, June 17, 2018 (UTC) :There was actually an entire segment in the second episode of Robot Wars: World Series surrounding the battle between Terrorhurtz and TMHWK where John Reid claimed to have gifted an old axe to TMHWK, and the Dutch Robot Girls played along with it, eventually giving the same axe back to John Reid during the episode. I agree that TMHWK's axe would've been incompatible with Terrorhurtz, but this backs up the claim, as John called the axe "too thin" for Terrorhurtz, which is why he claimed to have given it away. I personally don't doubt him. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'T'OAS]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'T']] 09:50, June 17, 2018 (UTC) I suggest you familiarise yourself with Robot Wars Wiki:Canon. Because we're volunteers and not professional journalists, we don't have the resources to vet the claims made by the show. We would only investigate and reach out to Reid if we had some reason to doubt the official story, like Das Gepack being German. We don't have anything but your idea, which is worth discussing, but we need more than your request that we verify what we saw on TV. For a long time we publicly contradicted the show's version of Terrorhurtz's disqualification, only to be told last year by John Reid the show was right. Happy to discuss if you have any information. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 09:53, June 17, 2018 (UTC) I am MrPK the original builder of Lazerus/Tomahawk - I sold Tomahawk to the Dutch team. The version i sold to them was the T3 model - that being the 3rd incarnation of the type. The axe shaft was designed by me and the engineering work supervised by me on each of the 3 occasions that a new shaft was made. The axe head remained the same throughout each variation. Like i say - totally incompatible with the workings of THZ. It sounds like the stuff of myth and legend rather than fact. Im not sure if or why John would have said this to anyone apart from the TV appeal. Please correct the facts. If you want further details videos or photos of the original machines then you can email me at la2erus@yahoo.co.uk - I can happily give you details. Cheers. :It would make sense as an addition for TV appeal, but I'm going to check with John Reid first if that's all right, just in case the TV story was based on some smaller version of the story. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 10:20, June 17, 2018 (UTC) Sounds like your saying that you would accept Johns word and not mine. I cant accept this incorrect version of facts to be written on the Wiki page. Im not doubting that John may have given away one of his axe shafts to another team. However it was not mine. Having this said on the Wiki disregards all the hard work and design that went into my builds over a period of 5 years plus. Please remove the reference. :No one is picking sides, we're just trying to get as much information as possible. With all respect, the proposed events took place after you sold Tomohawk so it may be there is some element of truth that has been exaggerated, rather than it being a completely made up story. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:39, June 17, 2018 (UTC) Your comments are noted However - All the parts on TomAhawk and its predecessor La2erus were designed and engineerd by myself. I appreciate the work you are doing in recording the history of the show and the robots. I have just watched the episode of Robot Wars World Series Episode 1 that you mention and have seen the comments made by John. I cant understand where any of it has come from. There are ofcouse design similarities - thats what the sport is all about - looking at compettitors designs and adapting for your own needs. Perhaps John did donate the axe shaft and hes got history confused - back then there were numerous axe design machines all with similar axe shafts Thor The 8345t Dominator Steel Avenger Im sure the list goes on. I think the best way to go on from here would be to try and get in contact with John Reid to find out the origin of the story from the World Series. The axe might have been adapted, or the story fabricated for some good telly. Unfortunately until then, I agree with TG that we should take the broadcast "canonical" story as correct for now. Thanks for the input though, and I hope we can find a reasonable answer that clears this up. Jimlaad43(talk) 18:37, June 17, 2018 (UTC) Unless John gave the Dutch girls the axe shaft after i sold Tomahawk - no matter what the story portrayed on the TV I will expect this to be corrected. I am actually quite angry about this. It came to my attention by a young family member who i have been encouraging to build himself after he learnt of my involvement in RW. I see you have again changed my correction in favour of the TV story. If you want to keep the refrence you will need to modify it as disputed. After watching the footage and looking at the last pictures i took of Tomahawk i can say with some certainty that the axe shaft is the original one sold with the T3 model. :As a word of advice, do remember to sign your posts on a talk page, even your own. With four of ~ those symbols. Also, I did not "change your correction in favour of the TV story", I merely swapped it for the more neutral version (and also, your edit was kinda awkwardly added, but primarily due to neutrality). :I can understand your annoyance, but we must ask for your patience, at least for a little bit. As TG said, we're just fans trying to figure out the facts, and often all we have to go on are what's shown on the TV show. Obviously, the roboteers' facts and figures take priority when we find them, and if they contradict what they show on TV, we will of course trust their better knowledge - examples including, but not limited to, the origin's of 101's name, how to spell "Snake Bite" and whether or not Ripper had interchangable weapons. However, on this particular occasion, the contradiction is between two roboteers, which I don't believe we've had yet, so it's a little more difficult to gauge. We've got your take on the story, we just need to hear John's, directly. It's just his was on the TV, so we at least for the time being have to work with that. CrashBash (talk) 19:34, June 17, 2018 (UTC) :I’m on my way to work but here’s is John reids response. Does this fit with your understanding, Paul? 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 21:47, June 17, 2018 (UTC) John Reid has suggested that the arm in this picture is the arm he gave you, this is from a live event a number of years ago? He's send me a photo of Terrorhurtz with the same arm for comparison, but I need access to his Google Drive first. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 20:59, June 18, 2018 (UTC) I think I can see where the problem might be coming from. Re-reading the quote again, John Reid says that "12 years later, it's still on there". Considering that he said this in 2017, and assuming he really did mean 12 years, that would put the axe-handing-down to about 2005, whereas Series 7 was filmed in 2003. So whilst the original Tomahawk did have Terrorhurtz' axe if we are to believe John Reid, it probably was after its Series 7 appearance. Does this work out? CrashBash (talk) 14:24, June 24, 2018 (UTC) Im afraid not no. I was starting to believe that John had given the Dutch girls a spare axe shaft after reading all your comments and looking at the Wiki again. I still have all my old photos and CAD files from when i designed the axe shaft on the T3 model in question. At no time did i take any parts from John. Up until the time that i sold it to Mario which was probably 1 to 2 years after series 7, everythig was designed and made by me. After that time i have no idea - perhaps he did donate parts to the Dutch girls. Maybe Mario or the Dutch girls can verify? Or perhaps he is confusing who he gave it to? I can send you all my pics and details - i am happy to share them with you and you may include them in the early history of Lazerus and Tomahawk. However - you will have to email me as i dont know how to use this wiki page. MrPK :Well, I'm sure someone will be able to contact Mario or the Dutch girls at some point, but in the meantime, the axe part has been moved to TMHWK's section rather than Tomahawk's. Combining what John and you have both said, it seems like the most reasonable outcome. CrashBash (talk) 20:38, June 24, 2018 (UTC) You must remember that i was there at the time of over 5 years. Ive offerd you my CAD files and photos as proof but you seem rather unwilling to listen to me. There are many people that can verify my story - i can give you quite a list of roboteers names that would verify my facts. I do not want any refrence to my original robot having THZ parts - ill keep an eye on the page and will keep changing it im afraid. My denial must be included if you want things to be balanced. :You flat out admitted that you don't know what happened after you sold Tomahawk and it became TMHWK. I'll quote you - "perhaps he did donate parts to the Dutch girls. Maybe Mario or the Dutch girls can verify? Or perhaps he is confusing who he gave it to?" That is why I have removed the information from Tomahawk's section and placed it in TMHWK's, because it's more accurate with the information we've given. We've got John's word that he gave his old axe to TMHWK, and we also have your word that he didn't give it to you, so based on what we know, because of him and because of you, the logical thing is that it is to assume that he handed it over when it was under the ownership of the Dutch team. Of course, we don't know that for a fact, so writing "according to John Reid, the arm originally belonged to an earlier incarnation of Terrorhurtz" is the most neutral way we can word it. And since it's labelled under TMHWK, we at least know that it's more accurate than labelling it under Tomahawk, which you've stated is flat-out wrong...so saying that we "seem rather unwilling to listen to (you)" is not true at all. :Also, please stop changing it. If you keep doing that, that'll constitute as edit-warring, which will see the page locked and risk the offending parties getting a temporary ban. Right now, all we can do is see if we can get words from the Dutch team. CrashBash (talk) 20:58, June 24, 2018 (UTC) ::For the sake of avoiding anything getting out of hand, I've removed mention of Terrorhurtz' axe until we can all figure out what is what. Like I said before, when we have two roboteers saying conflicting things, it can get very confusing. Rest assured we will figure this all out as soon as we possibly can. CrashBash (talk) 21:11, June 24, 2018 (UTC) Yes, Im well aware of everything i have said. Ive also said I appreciate all the work you are doing in recording the history of the show. Please dont misconstrue my written words as hostile in any way as im only trying to set the record straight. If as disscussed he did donate an axe shaft to the Dutch Girls thats fine and it should be included. Lets leave it there for now as you say and wait until further verification can be made. As a footnote ive just looked at some high res photos of the axe that got broken by Matilda in series 10 and compared them to my photos of the T3 model - specifically the slot machined in the gear end of the shaft which was made to accomodate the gear for my 150 stroke ram as opposed to the 250 one on THZ and it looks like its mine with the 150mm slot. Anyhow - lets see what the Dutch Girls say. :Just as a reminder, please remember to sign your posts on a talk page, using four of ~ those symbols. CrashBash (talk) 03:44, June 25, 2018 (UTC)